Political crisis in the UK

I don't know how much you've heard of this in the USA but recently there has been political scandal:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disclosure_of_expenses_of_Members_of_the_United_Kingdom_Parliament

Just wondering what you in the US think of what's going on, most people here are outraged.

Also going on is the Prime Minister Gorden Brown is looking like he might be thrown out by his own party. Several members of his cabinet have quit and actually just on the news now I've picked up while writing the Defense Secretary John Hutton has just quit. So Brown is doomed and as a Labour supporter I hope he goes so we don't lose too many seats in Parliament when the Conservatives win the next election (its inevitable now but it will be damaging to the economic recovery). Brown actually never won an election, he took over when Blair left in 2007 and he didn't even win a party election.

In the meantime local elections (so local councils) and European elections (MEPs, members of the European Parliament) are going on at the moment. It appears Labour is losing heavily and because of the expenses scandal minority parties like the Green Party (there OK) and the British National Party (formally the National Front, formally the British Union of Fascists - so a load of evil bastards) are winning some seats.

The whole country politically is in melt down, we haven't seen anything close to this since they through out Margret Thatcher and not in a really long time with the Labour party. From my understanding this sort of Political backstabbing doesn't happen in America so what do you think.

Our scandals tend to revolve around sleeping with interns and then killing them later, I guess we might be a little more hardcore in trying to cover up our dirty secrets lol. Well recently here in the U.S. we had a senator defect from the conservative party to the liberal party, although in actuality he will just be a conservative liberal. That is kind of a big deal politically for several reasons.

1) Gives the democrats in the senate a filibuster proof 60 votes.
2) Demonstrates the growing divide in America
3) The ongoing split of the Republicans and their debate on "What a true Conservative looks like?"

So we are in some political strife over here as well, but really, what place in the world isn't?

I am still waiting for the moderate conservatives/Republicans to take hold of the GOP from the radicals who presently are in charge (aka Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Gingrich, Cantor, that-crazy-woman-who-i-forgot-the-name-of, and a couple more like that indian dude and another)

I may be a social democrat, but the conservatives still have some good opinions, and btw its boring being the sole major party lol

Or how the conservative Republican bible thumpers say that they're anti gay rights, and then are secretly having sex with their staffers. Laughs.

especially the extreme religious far right radicals, who dont even understand what they are reading (by that i mean that Jesus was the biggest socialist in history)

Wow, I've just read a summary of the whole thing, and you Brits have the best political scandals ever. Having MPs decide what expenses are necessary just seems like a disaster waiting to happen. It's kind of unsurprising that (a) it contained abuse of the permitted expenses and (b) people tried to hold up the release of the documents.

Unfortunately, I don't know if anyone would care if that happened here. For one thing, it would be held up for years in court as our Congressmen or White House staff tried to block it. (though it sounds like that happened to you as well) For another, I think Americans got scandal-fatigued during the Bush administration, so abuses of power don't really get noticed much. At least, they don't if it's the executive branch involved; Congress might be different.

So Gracania, what is the real problem with the Conservative party?

I mean I hate the name itself, but Churchill was a member of the Conservatives wasn't he? So what's the real problem now?

New Roosevelt wrote:So Gracania, what is the real problem with the Conservative party?

I mean I hate the name itself, but Churchill was a member of the Conservatives wasn't he? So what's the real problem now?

What's wrong with the Conservatives? Try handicapping industry, the Poll tax, war in the Falklands, war in Ireland, tax cuts for the rich, spending cuts in the NHS, cuts in Higher education spending, irrational fear of Europe and all that was in their last two periods of power.
They aren't fundamentally bad, when they were called the Tories (officially) they were the left against the Wigs - but that was 18th/19th Century. But I believe that their cuts in spending are the exact opposite of what we need to restart the economy. Labour may have got us into this problem but they were actually following traditional Tory policies and they have changed now.

Besides that would you elect this man?


David Cameron, leader of the Conservative party

Oh and Churchill was a Liberal at first, then they became an embarrassment to politics for a while (now known as Liberal Democrats after a reconstruction in 1979). Labour rose at this point and Churchill decided (in my opinion) if he wanted a party that was worth being in it would be the Conservatives because he didn't want to join the Socialists who were calling for such ridiculous things as a National Health Service and a peaceful break up of the Empire.

Oh for god sakes, it's always the Conservative's fault, the sky being blue and the grass being green is the Conservative's fault according to the liberals? While they what? Spend million and millions of dollars on making COW MANURE SMELL BETTER?!?!?!?!?!?! Oh yeah that's more important than you know giving people tax cuts, because having a massive liberal government that taxes the ever living hell out of the rich and regular people and wasting it to the nth degree is just so.......................... much better.

Oh and as far as your bible thumper comments, believe it or not most Republicans aren't bible thumpers, but oh wait that would make us more appealing so the liberals can't make a huge government.

Actually the Conservative Party and the word you understand conservative are very different. The Conservative Party are a load of rich snobs descended from the aristocracy who are in no way connected with the working class who make up the majority of the people.

I don't now the details of the Manure smell thing but I assume that it is about reducing methane gas given off which is very important. You know what raise the taxes on the rich more to pay for it, its not like they don't have enough money and haven't wrecked the world enough it. Dealing with Global Warming is more important than people having lots of money. Fact.

Gracania wrote:Actually the Conservative Party and the word you understand conservative are very different. The Conservative Party are a load of rich snobs descended from the aristocracy who are in no way connected with the working class who make up the majority of the people.

I don't now the details of the Manure smell thing but I assume that it is about reducing methane gas given off which is very important. You know what raise the taxes on the rich more to pay for it, its not like they don't have enough money and haven't wrecked the world enough it. Dealing with Global Warming is more important than people having lots of money. Fact.

Excuses, yeah um no. The bill was to make it smell less, not to reduce methane gas that is given off, but oh wait after the wonderful libs screw something they have to cover it up with 'well global warming......'.

And maybe the Conservative Party in England is different than what it is here, but from what I've seen the liberal party's ideals are far worse than what the conservatives want. And besides, global warming exists, yes it does, but you know what, I'd rather have some money in my pocket as well rather than have it taxed away for useless programs started by an omnipresent government that has nothing to do with global warming.

As I said I didn't know about the particular circumstances and I just made an assumption based on what normal people would suggest, obviously that doesn't apply to the Democratic Party.

At least its an effort that's being made to try and make sure your children will have a world in which to spend the money you're making. Taxing the hell out of the oil companies is a good solution because it provides an economic incentive to do something about Climate Change.

Oh and I'm a Labour supporter not the completely useless Liberal Democrat Party

Laughs.

I've mentioned this on another thread but this is a copy and pasted, word for word, quote from a former friend of mine. She was an absolute idiot who just listened to what her father told her about politics. So this was her status a few weeks ago on facebook...

"Obama=Liberal Fascist Scum! (cant take it? dont comment)"


And this, is why America is moving liberal. So we don't have the rest of the world looking at us like idiots. We call ourselves the only superpower left in the world, and the leaders of the free world, and yet we can't teach students basic understanding of the political spectrum? What the hell?

New Roosevelt wrote:Laughs.

I've mentioned this on another thread but this is a copy and pasted, word for word, quote from a former friend of mine. She was an absolute idiot who just listened to what her father told her about politics. So this was her status a few weeks ago on facebook...

"Obama=Liberal Fascist Scum! (cant take it? dont comment)"


And this, is why America is moving liberal. So we don't have the rest of the world looking at us like idiots. We call ourselves the only superpower left in the world, and the leaders of the free world, and yet we can't teach students basic understanding of the political spectrum? What the hell?

That's because we have something called Freedom of Choice, in America you have the freedom to be an absolute and complete moron, but you also have the right to be an incredibly intelligent idealist. I highly doubt America will ever be entirely liberal, and if it does than I can promise you one thing; I'm leaving this country.

Being Liberal doesn't mean freedom of choice is lost.

Liberals did the best things in your country: Liberals gave blacks civil rights, they gave women the vote, they created social security and they freed the slaves (I know Lincoln was a republican, but he was a liberal republican).

Gracania wrote:As I said I didn't know about the particular circumstances and I just made an assumption based on what normal people would suggest, obviously that doesn't apply to the Democratic Party.

At least its an effort that's being made to try and make sure your children will have a world in which to spend the money you're making. Taxing the hell out of the oil companies is a good solution because it provides an economic incentive to do something about Climate Change.

Oh and I'm a Labour supporter not the completely useless Liberal Democrat Party

I also believe that Laborers should have rights and such, and believe it or not, I'm an environmentalist, but I don't think that flying the flag of Global Warming and taxing hard working people and putting it into useless and ineffective programs, and welfare to give it to people who are too lazy to get off their butts is right, and that's what libs do, but they always go to the same argument; Global Warming, now if I could see a good amount of money actually working on this problem, I wouldn't think quite as poorly of the liberals, but again, one thing GOP or any other conservative based party never gets credit for is the bills that they introduce for global warming prevention.

Also as far as your comment about freeing slaves, um no, actually it was the Republican party who gave freedom to slaves, Democrats backed the south, if you don't believe me, look it up. Also liberals take away more freedom than they give, I agree giving women a voice, is very important, and the libs did good there, but they put more restrictions on guns, they gave social equality, um no, that was a join effort.

I hate having to quote myself

Gracania wrote: they freed the slaves (I know Lincoln was a republican, but he was a liberal republican).

Democrats aren't all liberals and not all Republicans are conservatives. They are just the right and left, you can be a liberal and believe in some similar things to the Republican party.

Gracania wrote:I hate having to quote myself

Gracania wrote: they freed the slaves (I know Lincoln was a republican, but he was a liberal republican).

Democrats aren't all liberals and not all Republicans are conservatives. They are just the right and left, you can be a liberal and believe in some similar things to the Republican party.

I concur, however Lincoln was a moderate, but oh wait that's right, even when someone that's good is of the other party, the liberals have to somehow be responsible.

The equivalent of the time he was liberal, by today's standards he is a moderate. The conservatives are the one usually holding progress back.

Gracania wrote:The equivalent of the time he was liberal, by today's standards he is a moderate. The conservatives are the one usually holding progress back.

No, I'd say it's pretty equal. Some conservatives are idiots, and some liberals are idiots, however BOTH do an equal amount of damage.

Point accepted.

Gracania wrote:Point accepted.

Yea! An agreement between us lol

The main advantage of Liberal politics is the Welfare state. Think how easy it would be in your country if small business owners didn't have to pay for health care. I met a guy from Alabama who wanted to start his own business but he couldn't because of health insurance. Why? Well he has a heart condition that developed in the past few year, his company was covering him, if he left the company he would after a while have to get his own insurance and they would not cover this because they would see it as a pre-existing condition. In this country he could start his own business because all the fat cats who can easily afford are paying high taxes to fund the NHS. Conservatives want an economic reason for something and there is one. What are the problems with nationalized health care? It works in the UK.

Gracania wrote:The main advantage of Liberal politics is the Welfare state. Think how easy it would be in your country if small business owners didn't have to pay for health care. I met a guy from Alabama who wanted to start his own business but he couldn't because of health insurance. Why? Well he has a heart condition that developed in the past few year, his company was covering him, if he left the company he would after a while have to get his own insurance and they would not cover this because they would see it as a pre-existing condition. In this country he could start his own business because all the fat cats who can easily afford are paying high taxes to fund the NHS. Conservatives want an economic reason for something and there is one. What are the problems with nationalized health care? It works in the UK.

Yeah, and people die every day because the waiting list is so long, it's pathetic, with private insurance it's more efficient, and in the long run it costs less.