Israel vs. Iran

Israel is a defensive, non-declared, nuclear state.

While I don't like their hiding of their nuclear weapons, I agree in full with them having them. Iran, as soon as they acquire them, shall launch it directly at Israel. 100% chance. Israel needs those weapons for their sovereign sake.

But I am more concerned with Iran's nuclear weapons. Wether they develop them on their own, or they get them from North Korea, it is a scary situation. Another one which I think we should discuss.

well i disagree w/ ur 100% calculation, it might b down to 40% : iran isnt suicidal

as for Iran getting nukes from NK, that cannot b true, NK has been blockaded since the korean war, they cannot (b/c they are blockaded and lack the technology) 2 send nukes all the way to Iran

personally i am against Israel taking the lands of the Palestinians, but they still deserve to live there, Side by side w/ a palestinian state

and also i agree w/ the Israeli threat that w/ any sign of nukes, Iran will be under air attacks, i am ok with that

but nothing more, Israel has been too flexible these days

But Iran has been receiving nuclear power from NK. It is true.

The economic sanctions have been just that, sanctions. Never blockades. While the US and many European nations blockade them, China doesn't and neither does Iran.

#%&$ well thats bad news

anyways, Israel will flatten any factory/refinery out there, with some consequences, but still, i doubt Iran would b able to launch such an attack

True enough.

AND not to mention the elections coming up, with a much more moderate politician more likely to seize the presidency, now Obama has reached out even more to the muslim world AND Iran

If the elections go ahead with a more moderate coming to power, that could be a victory and a loss together.

A win, because they'd be likely more willing to work with the US. And maybe we could even re-recognize Iran as a nation again.

A loss because they'd also want to get back at Israel. But anyone that seizes office would want that. Still the same.

Let us hope that this is true. If Iran gets a more moderate leader it would be better for everyone. I do not think however that these countries should hide the knowlage that they have nuclear weapons. Iran i do not know if they have them yet or not but i do not think they do. Also I agree that Iran is not suicidal and that Obama could do a good job getting more of the Muslim nations to become less aggressive towards the US and possibly even less hostile to Israel.

attacking Israel w/ nukes is suicide, and every1 knows that

and 2 invade Israel Iran would need all the nations between the 2 on their side, which would take a LOT of negotiating/bribing/threatening, especially w/ the US satelite Iraq and the strong yet very nuetral Syria

yeah, if he can get israel to back off and help create an independent state of Palestine.

Also assuming that the Palestineans agree to get a state besides where israel is. They may not be so willing to leave Israel but i could be wrong. It seems to me that they still want israel back. There are many things that could cause complications but i do doubt that Iran will attack Israel.

It interests me how opinions around the world differ. In my country we take a more Liberal view to the situation. Not many people in this country support Israel's actions and they have reasons not to (i.e. The genocide of Arabs in 1948, the six day war, Lebanon war, the invasion of Gaza this year etc). The Arabs got completely screwed over by the League of Nations in the 20s and the UN in the 40s. They helped fight off the Turks in World War 1 and the League gave Britain protectorate over Palestine in return, technically they were only there until the country could be reorganized but we didn't leave until 1947 (remember in the 20s we were the most powerful country on Earth so another colony was right up our street back then.) Then Jews from Europe, who had been persecuted in Europe by Europeans were given land in the Middle East taken from Arabs! In the war of 1948 the Israelis (backed by the good old USA and other allied powers such as the UK) seized most Arab land in Palestine then murdered millions of Arabs in an attempt to make them flee the land, their descendants are still living in refugee camps.

Its not about moderate Iran or a democratic Iran, its about a liberal Israel that will end all the settlements in the West Bank, that will apologize to the Arab world for what went on in Gaza this year and will pay reparations for war crimes. You may say that the Israelis are only doing what they do because of Arabian terrorists but in reality the Arab terrorists are only doing what they do because of Zionist oppression.

Its the West's fault that we favored the Israelis too much and the ridiculous partition plan in 1947 (see below) which could only lead to conflict. But it must be the Israelis who fix it, and that involves apologizing to the Arabs who time and again have been dealt the duff hand.

Pride...that is what it comes down too. Everyone that has been mentioned in the this thread have too much damn pride, and any compromise is seen as a sign of weakness. At the end of the day, a series of unfortunate events have led us to where we are, and ultimately too much history of one particular stance has made it impossible to negotiate anything.

However, if we are to be watching out for any type of nuclear launching it will be between West Pakistan and India, who both are fighting over lands they believe belong to each other. That's where the real fireworks show is, Iran and N.K. are just playing world politics, they have no intention of launching anything at anyone because they are lone wolves.

This essentially comes down to basic sociology. The Jews have been persecuted by just about everyone over the past 2000 years. The Italians, the Germans, the Russians, you name it, they've done it. Sociology states that if a person or group of people have suffered so much over such a long period of time, you have an awful lot of anger, grief and revenge that you need to take out on someone.

When the Jews achieved their dream of a sovereign state in their "promised land", they were jubilant, to say the least. Now they had their own state and, without themselves feeling it at the time, an almost helpless Arab population, which would soon become a large minority in Israel.

It was this opportunity that gave the Israelis the impetus to begin their own persecution against the Arabs. I would not go so far as to call it a holocaust, but it is certainly unmitigated genocide. And this is down to their feelings mentioned previously; and they are taking it on the Palestinians.

Yes, Israel is attacked by rockets and suicide bombers; and yes, these attacks are wrong and should not happen. But think about it for a minute: Israel obviously want to stop these attacks. They have tried to do so by:
-Building a wall that violates Palestinian sovereignty and, in some cases, divides towns, families and vital infrastructure (e.g wells)
-Allowing settlements to be built on Palestinian land, even after Ariel Sharon in 2000 stated that there would be no new settlements built in the Occupied Territories
-Completely razing Palestinian villages (often with people still in them)
-Discriminating against the Arab minority within Israel (e.g building separate roads for Palestinians to travel on)

None of the above have worked, with the possible exception of the wall, which has been denounced by even the Supreme Court of Israel, which deemed the wall "inhumane" and a "violation of human rights".

As history has taught us, if you want to stop people attacking you, you have to find the reasons why they are attacking you (nobody attacks without reason; whether they be 'good' or 'bad'). In the Palestinians' case, it is because they have been persecuted since the 1930s, when Jews first began arriving in large numbers in the area that Israel is now, they have been killed, deported, separated, tortured, ignored, violated and whatever other words you may care to use. The message is clear: the non-Jews in the area around Israel have been needlessly screwed over.

So, if Israel was really serious about solving the problem, they would go to the root of the cause and fix it. Not opt for superficial gestures, like meaningless statements of 'readiness to negotiate' or 'readiness for peace', such as the Oslo Accord and the Camp David Agreement, but to recognise a Palestinian state, withdraw to the pre-1967 boundaries, allow equality, stop settlements and destroy the existing ones which violate Palestinian sovereignty and pay compensation to everyone who has suffered at the hands of Israel. This, and only this, is the solution to the problem.

I love how everyone here blames Israel for all the problems, yet no one ever thinks of it from the Israelis point of view; how would you like it if every day of your life you get missiles dropped on your head, how would you like it if for 2000+ years you are persecuted every day, and how would you like it, if people exterminate your race's population yet countries like Iran denounce that fact, I'm sorry but Israel has every right to get a little pissy and attack, but here we go again with the 'well if liberals ruled Israel' crap, I can tell you exactly what would happen if liberals ruled Israel, Israel would say sorry for everything, even when they had the right to attack, or whatever they're apologizing for, and Israel would do nothing, they would just sit back and take it. I'm sorry, but Israel has been screwed over for longer than any other nation in the world, and all they get is condemned and crapped on.

Why should the Arabs be punished for what the Romans, the Russians, the Germans, the French, the English and the Americans did and do? Compromise is required here and that can only happen with at least a moderate Israel. The reason extremists of the Arab world attack Israel is because they are angry at being screwed over by the entire world. 1914, 1948, 1956 and so on and so on until 2009. We support Israel too much and thus the Arab world has become terrorists and the bad guys. Israel has to stop settling in Arab territory and crushing civilians in Gaza. If you think the Jews have been mistreated by the world then set up Jewish states outside Rome, in New York State, in Moscow, in Munich, Paris and London.

How are the Arabs punished? If you look at history it's the ARABS that invade Israel, not America, we do not support them too much, we support them properly. I'm sorry but Israel has gotten screwed over far........................................... more than countries like Iran.

The Arabs won the battle in Palestine in WW1 for us. They had lived there since the Middle Ages and were begin oppressed by the Ottoman Empire at the time. The West screwed them over by giving their land to the Israelis because we felt guilty.

Gracania wrote:The Arabs won the battle in Palestine in WW1 for us. They had lived there since the Middle Ages and were begin oppressed by the Ottoman Empire at the time. The West screwed them over by giving their land to the Israelis because we felt guilty.

While the Arabs were oppressed, I fail to see how the Ottoman Empire oppressing them has anything to do with why Israel is evil. Israel was there when the Arab Empire was still just a bunch of farmers in villas.

Fine I accept your point. On another note would all non-Native American Indians please leave the USA. Hey they were there first.

Wilhelm Tuscini wrote:How are the Arabs punished? If you look at history it's the ARABS that invade Israel, not America, we do not support them too much, we support them properly. I'm sorry but Israel has gotten screwed over far........................................... more than countries like Iran.

Are you kidding me? Hm... They had their entire COUNTRY taken away!!!

Gracania wrote:Fine I accept your point. On another note would all non-Native American Indians please leave the USA. Hey they were there first.

Laughs. So major laughs!


I'm technically native right? 25% Native Hawaiian Baby!!! Suckas!!! I'll see you when I vacation to China!!!

New Roosevelt wrote:

Wilhelm Tuscini wrote:How are the Arabs punished? If you look at history it's the ARABS that invade Israel, not America, we do not support them too much, we support them properly. I'm sorry but Israel has gotten screwed over far........................................... more than countries like Iran.

Are you kidding me? Hm... They had their entire COUNTRY taken away!!!

By who?

New Roosevelt wrote:

Gracania wrote:Fine I accept your point. On another note would all non-Native American Indians please leave the USA. Hey they were there first.

Laughs. So major laughs!


I'm technically native right? 25% Native Hawaiian Baby!!! Suckas!!! I'll see you when I vacation to China!!!

Lulz, again totally different, the Israelis were in Israel first, not the Arabs.

That's what I meant. In my anology the Arabs are the Americans and the Israelis are the Native Americans.